Richard Elmer Cloward
Richard Elmer and Kathleen Maxwell Thomas Cloward in January 1970
Richard Cloward being interviewed by Chase Ford on 11/24/2011
Questions about Childhood
1. What is the earliest event in your life you can remember? Tell me about it.
I had just come out of kindergarten and I was walking down main street and I stopped and looked at this picture window and it was a saw horse on a pony a rocking chair. And I thought “you know, I am going to ask Santa for a rocking chair pony for a ride.” And lo and behold Santa Clause brought one. I was only 5 years old. This was in Provo and I was the only blonde blue eyed boy on the block.
2. How did your parents choose your name?
I have no idea. I wound up with my dad’s name in the middle.
3. Where did you grow up?
I grew up in Provo, Utah. I was there until I left when I got married.
4. How did you travel or go places in those days?
Dad had a 1936 Ford two-door that we used to go around and travel in. We used a car to go wherever we went.
5. What are the names of your brothers and sisters, in order? Do you remember how you felt and what you did when your younger brothers or sisters were born? How about _____? (Name the next younger child. Go through all the children’s names.)
I don’t have any brothers and sisters. I am a lone soul. Not like the “Cindy Family.”
6. What experiences do you remember having with your brothers and sisters?
7. What kinds of things did you do for fun? Any other things?
In the winter, in the snow, We used to do a lot of bobsledding on the streets. We had these sleds, you could pick them up and run and slide them down on the road and slide. Baseball. In the summer we went down to the lake and did some fishing and killed time. That was it for a while until I was older and got a shotgun and start hunting peasant. We used to hunt peasants. When we got through hunting peasants we brought them home and ate them.
8. Did your friends or family have any nicknames for you? What did they call you? Why did they call you that?
No, I didn’t have any nicknames or anything. Mainly they didn’t call me Richard they always called me dick and so I said, “OK, fine I will go by the name Dick.” So that is how I got the name I went by.
9. What chores did your parents have you do? How did you feel about doing them?
Chores. Well, Really they weren’t too much. I had to cut the lawn and move the snow out of the sidewalks, moves the leaves away from the trees out front but basically that was it. So it wasn’t too hard work. CAN’T HEAR LISTEN TO 5:00
10. What was Christmas like when you were young?
Christmas I can remember in the front room upstairs. I wanted an electric train and I ahd been looking for it and looking at it. Dad used ot say “they are very expensive I don’t know if Santa can afford one of those.” And I said, “well, whatever he gets maybe he can get a wind up one.” But I found out on Christmas morning there was a brand new electric train sitting under the tree. And I said “well santa clause was here and he left just what I wanted.” The Christmas after that I found out bicycles were pretty good you know. I asked Santa clause for a bike and sure enough I got a bike. Basically that was what we did.
11. Did you have a special way of celebrating birthdays? What special family traditions did you have?
Not really. They baked a cake and had a big dinner and put the candles on it and I blew it out. And everyone wished me a Happy Birthday a few people brought presents. It wasn’t anything big, it was just a family affair. A coulple of my relations dropped by to say hello and that was it.
12. Who baptized you? Who attended the baptism?
I can’t remember. I had too many that did baptisms. I can’t help you there cuz I forgot their names.
13. How did you feel about school? What did you do well in school? What did you do poorly? Which teachers did you like best?
6th 7th and 8th we went to jr. high. 10 11 and 12 was high school. When I got to highschool it was 1943 and the war was on and guess who joined the navy? Richard did at 18 years old in 1943 on November 23 I was 18 and I enlisted in the navy and in two weeks I was gone.
14. Did you ever have any unusual or exciting adventures when you were a child? Any others you can think of?
Yea, I got knocked out one night. We lived down town in Provo and mom went one way and I went the other and I got lost. I finally found a way back to the house. They lived upstairs and the only way I could get their attention is I got a rock and threw it up and broke the window. Then mom came out and says “there you are, where have you been.” I says, “oh perfect, here I’m home.” I did get lost again next time when we were shopping. I got lost but I knew how to get home. She told me if you get lost go home and I’ll go home and you’ll know how to go home. I did but she was a little unhappy about the window but I says I just wanted to get your attention and you were on the second the floor. The place downstairs was called Bradshaws auto part and the stairs went down the side and CAN’T HEAR 9:39
Questions about the Teen Years
1. Where did you live? Tell me about your home.
I lived in provo until I was 18. Then I joined the navy and when I came back I went to school at BYU.
2. What was your favorite activity as a teenager? Tell me about it.
Well, I had two or three favorite things. First I did a lot of pheasant money. Second when I turned sixteen I started to fly airplanes. I learned because I wanted to be a pilot. I used to go deer hunting. I could get a license to go deer hunting. And that was about the three things I did until I turned 18. Oh and went boating on Utah lake. We had a boat so we did a lot of boating and duck hunting too.
3. What was school like as a teenager? Was there something you were especially good at in school? What school activities did you participate in?
I went to Provo High School. We went to seminar every morning and then we would go to High school. It was just like any school. We went to the classes and we had different deals you had to do and mathematics and English, I don’t remember all the classes but that’s what it was, it was just High School. And you had your curriculum, your 7th 8th and 9th grade. 10th 11th and 12th as you got to High School. Did all the classes until it was time to depart.
4. What books did you read? What were your favorite radio or television programs?
Mainly I read the comic books. We would get them and read them “Flash Gorden,” and “main the terrible.” And “Buck Rogers.” And all that stuff. And I guess that was about it. We didn’t have a television but Radio Programs we used to listen to “Amos and Andy.” And I guess that was about it. We didn’t have too much to do. Oh, we used to go to the movies and watch Gene Autry and all the Cowboy movies. Every Saturday you got in for ten cents. You can’t do that now.
5. What was teenage music like then? What was your favorite kind?
I didn’t pay too much attention to music. It was just music because it didn’t mean anything to me at all. I just listened to it and thought, “Oh that’s fine and good ” I says maybe I’ll need it maybe I won’t. But I listened to it and said. Well, that was pretty. So that’s about as far as that went.
6. Did you go to school dances? What were they like? How did teenagers dance then?
Oh yea we went to school dances. They were in the gym and you went in and the ladies would sit on one side and you sit on the other and you go up and ask some young lady to go dancing with you so I would go over and dance. That was about it. It was all chaperoned and everything. It was just a high school event like when you go to a football game you go and you participate.
7. What home responsibilities did you have?
Kind of like I have now. I had to take out the trash and empty it and bring it in, move the trash cans, help clean up the yard and cut the lawn and keep the car running. We had 1936 Ford and that is where I learned to drive. He would park it facing in and I would get in and drive it turn it around and face it out. When I got ready for my driver’s license at 16 I already knew how to drive pretty well, didn’t have much trouble passing the test. And that was about it mainly, just regular chores around the house.
8. Did anything difficult happen to you as a teenager?
Yea, we used to go down to Utah Lake a lot. We did a lot of swimming when we were down there. I used to run with four or five guys and we built a diving helmet. You would sit it down over your shoulders and you had the little deal in front (we made a little glass deal welded it and all put together) and it had a hose going up to it. The way we got the air to it is we had 3 hand pumps and we would pump on it that way and get the air in it. We could go down about 10 feet you know, walk around a little on the bottom. One day I was down there walking around and all of a sudden they quit pumping. I says, “UH oh.” So, we had an escape plan in case that every happened, we just push it off took a breath and come to the top. I says “What happened.” “The hose broke!” And I said “That’s a fine time to break I’m ten feet under wire.” “Well that is why you got the top you can push off and you come to the top.” And I said “well it works I’m here.”
One other thing we were pheasant hunting and a pheasant took off right in front of me and I was walking this way and there were four hunters that saw that saw that same pheasant go up and I says “I’m in trouble.” So I just turned my back and pulled my leather jacket up and all four of those guys shot and I got hit with about 25 pellets. Right up the back and down on the legs and side but it didn’t go through because I had a leather jacket and Levi’s on and I said, “Hey guys at least point it the other way.” But that happened out in pheasant hunting which could happen to anybody. But I knew what was coming so I was ready for it when it hit. I says OK. Then I got a pheasant right after that.
9. Who were your friends then? What did you like to do with them?
There were five of us. There was Russell Naxim, Bob Davis, Bob Anderson, Bob Conad, and me and Max Mitchell. All of them except Russell and me are dead. So there are only two of us left out of the whole group. They passed on to the other side.
10. What made you decide on your career or college or your plans for your future? What goals did you have at that time?
I used to build a lot of airplane models. I had low wing u controls and high wings and all gas models with the little gas engines and I decided then that I was going to be a pilot. That is when I decided to become a pilot and that is when I decided to fly when I was 16 and I flew until I was retired in ’83. I worked as a flight mechanic for Hughes Aircraft Company. One other thing, I learned to fly helicopters too. SO that was another added incentive that they wanted to keep me to fly after I retired. But my wife Kathleen said you “No, you aren’t going to do any more flying , you’ve done enough and we are going to go to Egypt.” So we went to Egypt and spent two weeks and this was in 1983.
12. When did you begin to have a testimony of Jesus Christ? What memories do you have of Church meetings or activities?
When do you get baptized the first time? When you are 8 years old? That is the first thing I remember, getting baptized.
I got to be a boy scout. I got to sit in class. I was working for my star. But I never made it and one of my friends who asked me said, “Are you going on a mission.” And I said, “Yea for the united states Navy.” And that is when I went when I joined 18. So I didn’t go on a mission I went on another mission.
Questions about Adult Life
1. How and when did you meet _____ (name of spouse)? What was your first impression of him or her? Tell me all about it. What happened then? How did you feel?
I thought she was a good looking gal. Well, when I met Kathy, Bob Davis, Bob Anderson, Russell and Conad were all back from the service. We had all come back you know, we had been discharged from the navy and the army and the air force and we were all in an religion class. It had the big seats in the back and the stage down below where the professor was. And he got to picking on Kathy about fire and any naturally I had a few things to say so I got up and said “Professor this is supposed to be a religions class and not a science class. It doesn’t’ make any difference what makes the D*** fire burn. It is the fact that this is a religious class and not a science class so stick to the point and get to your religion.” Bob Davis and all the rest of the guys said “Tell him dick!” and I said “Well I’ll give him six inches of steal.” And that is how I met my wife. Those professors thought they had it made that they could do it that you were afraid of them. They found out that every GI that came back wasn’t afraid of anything because he had already been through everything. I shouldn’t tell you this but you have a religion class you know? And you are required to have so many hours of religion. Well, guess who was sluffing religion class? I was. So the scholarship committee called me up and said “Richard you are sluffing to much religion. You got to least come to class anyhow.” And I said “Why?” And he said “Well you have got to have a testimony.” And I said, “I got a testimony. I’m not really interested what they did 3000 years ago. I’m interested in what they are doing today.” And he said “I’ll tell you what, I will make a deal with you. If you just come to class We’ll will give you a C.” And I said “boy you guys drive a hard bargain.” And he said “well, you can’t take it you can’t leave it” and I said “well I guess I will have to take it.” So I had to go to religion class to finish out and get my total numbers to graduate. And after we got through with that the professor wasn’t too happy with us guys up in the religion class and Kathy said “Thank-You.”
2. When were you married? Where were you married? What do you remember about your wedding day?
We were married in the Salt Lake Temple. It was dark and rainy. It was the 14 of August. That is where we got married.
3. What was it like to be a newlywed in those days?
Broke. I had this friend named al who wasn’t really a member of the gang we knew him and he was a fine instructor and Al Gone was down in California working for Hughes Aircraft. I was going to work on my Master’s degree and I looked around for a job but there just wasn’t any job after I graduated. So he said come down to California I got a job for you. So I went down to California and become a flight engineer and a pilot for the company and a helicopter pilot.
4. What memorable or humorous adventures did you have?
Got lost in Disneyland. That is the only thing that was exciting. We finally found each other. It was about a 3 hour chunk that I didn’t know where Kathy was and she didn’t know where I was. We go separated on Pirates of the Caribbean. I got left behind and she went on the boat and it stopped on the other side of the dock and I couldn’t get over to the other side of the dock. She got off and when I got over there she wasn’t there. I says well, I don’t’ know where she is and we kept going around and hunting and we finally found each other. But it was about a two hour block before we found each other.
5. What was it like to become a parent? How did you feel?
We did all the things that was right and we got a beautiful girl named Robin. I had to start making more money to support the whole family so Kathy went to work and I went to work and we loaned sort of Robin out to the babysitter until we got more money. After that we had another daughter named Cindy and by that time Kathy and pretty much had a good job with Serves and I was still with Hughes and we just grew up and they grew up and everybody did their thing.
7. As an adult or parent, what did you like to do for entertainment? What were some of your favorite traditions?
We liked to eat out. Go see the movie. We did a lot of skiing. We used to go to Ala and briden and ski all day and all night. In the night time we would go to Alpine village. They had a ski lift that they made and we used to do a lot of night skiing up there too. That was one of the things we used to do.
8. What talents did you discover in yourself as you grew up? Tell me about all the things you learned to do. (It may be necessary to prod your relative on this one. He or she knows plenty but often doesn’t think it will be interesting. You might need to read a list of talents and ask about the happiest or most challenging or unpleasant time with that talent.)
That I was pretty good with my hands and could work a lot of problems with them. I was very good at mechanical stuff. I could take it apart and put it together and make it work. That is when I decided that I was going to be a mechanic and a pilot and buy my own airplane. And that’s what I did. And I bought my own airplane and named it after my first daughter, Robin. It was a Stenson Voyager 108-1.
9. Have you had any personal or family tragedies in your life? If you would like, tell me about them.
No, none other than just my mother and dad dying but there is nothing you can do about that. It happens to everybody. That’s the only two tragedies we had. Plus two operations.
10. How did you feel when your father, mother, brother, sister, spouse, or child died? How did you get used to life without that person? What helped you the most?
When I was married at the time and I had Kathy and I adjusted to it. It was a normal thing and there is nothing you can do about it so life went on and we went on it.
When Kathy died, that was like the end of the world, because we had always done everything together. Funny thing, the morning it happened I told Robin, I says “Robin watch your mother she’s not acting right.” I had the key to the library at the church so I was taking the key to the library. When I come back Robin was already gone to the hospital. And I knew something was really wrong when she went to the hospital. When I got there they wanted to know what she was eating because they didn’t know what it was. Then she went into a coma and Mark, my son-in-law, went and stayed with her. And that very night while all of us were visiting she passed on. Funny thing, when she died it was kind of like a wind went around everybody and it was just a big sigh of relief. That’s how we missed Kathy and we have been without her ever since but we still remember her memory.
11. What was the greatest accomplishment or joy you have had in life? What others do you remember?
Learning to fly that helicopter! That is one mean airplane to fly, well it’s not an airplane, it’s a helicopter. I learned to fly a regular airplane in 8 hours and it took me 18 hours to learn how to fly that helicopter. A helicopter is much more sophisticated. It can do more things and it really is the workforce of the group now, as you notice helicopters do everything.
13. Tell me about your testimony of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Are there any spiritual experiences you would like to tell me about?
I believe that Jesus Christ did live. And that he is the only and only to fallow, U always try to keep the commandments. I went through the latter right to the top. I think I'm a high priest now. I think it is just automatic to go to church every Sunday and pay your tithing. If you are Mormon. But a lot of people aren't Mormon so they don't understand us.
Time 44:27
1. What is the earliest event in your life you can remember? Tell me about it.
I had just come out of kindergarten and I was walking down main street and I stopped and looked at this picture window and it was a saw horse on a pony a rocking chair. And I thought “you know, I am going to ask Santa for a rocking chair pony for a ride.” And lo and behold Santa Clause brought one. I was only 5 years old. This was in Provo and I was the only blonde blue eyed boy on the block.
2. How did your parents choose your name?
I have no idea. I wound up with my dad’s name in the middle.
3. Where did you grow up?
I grew up in Provo, Utah. I was there until I left when I got married.
4. How did you travel or go places in those days?
Dad had a 1936 Ford two-door that we used to go around and travel in. We used a car to go wherever we went.
5. What are the names of your brothers and sisters, in order? Do you remember how you felt and what you did when your younger brothers or sisters were born? How about _____? (Name the next younger child. Go through all the children’s names.)
I don’t have any brothers and sisters. I am a lone soul. Not like the “Cindy Family.”
6. What experiences do you remember having with your brothers and sisters?
7. What kinds of things did you do for fun? Any other things?
In the winter, in the snow, We used to do a lot of bobsledding on the streets. We had these sleds, you could pick them up and run and slide them down on the road and slide. Baseball. In the summer we went down to the lake and did some fishing and killed time. That was it for a while until I was older and got a shotgun and start hunting peasant. We used to hunt peasants. When we got through hunting peasants we brought them home and ate them.
8. Did your friends or family have any nicknames for you? What did they call you? Why did they call you that?
No, I didn’t have any nicknames or anything. Mainly they didn’t call me Richard they always called me dick and so I said, “OK, fine I will go by the name Dick.” So that is how I got the name I went by.
9. What chores did your parents have you do? How did you feel about doing them?
Chores. Well, Really they weren’t too much. I had to cut the lawn and move the snow out of the sidewalks, moves the leaves away from the trees out front but basically that was it. So it wasn’t too hard work. CAN’T HEAR LISTEN TO 5:00
10. What was Christmas like when you were young?
Christmas I can remember in the front room upstairs. I wanted an electric train and I ahd been looking for it and looking at it. Dad used ot say “they are very expensive I don’t know if Santa can afford one of those.” And I said, “well, whatever he gets maybe he can get a wind up one.” But I found out on Christmas morning there was a brand new electric train sitting under the tree. And I said “well santa clause was here and he left just what I wanted.” The Christmas after that I found out bicycles were pretty good you know. I asked Santa clause for a bike and sure enough I got a bike. Basically that was what we did.
11. Did you have a special way of celebrating birthdays? What special family traditions did you have?
Not really. They baked a cake and had a big dinner and put the candles on it and I blew it out. And everyone wished me a Happy Birthday a few people brought presents. It wasn’t anything big, it was just a family affair. A coulple of my relations dropped by to say hello and that was it.
12. Who baptized you? Who attended the baptism?
I can’t remember. I had too many that did baptisms. I can’t help you there cuz I forgot their names.
13. How did you feel about school? What did you do well in school? What did you do poorly? Which teachers did you like best?
6th 7th and 8th we went to jr. high. 10 11 and 12 was high school. When I got to highschool it was 1943 and the war was on and guess who joined the navy? Richard did at 18 years old in 1943 on November 23 I was 18 and I enlisted in the navy and in two weeks I was gone.
14. Did you ever have any unusual or exciting adventures when you were a child? Any others you can think of?
Yea, I got knocked out one night. We lived down town in Provo and mom went one way and I went the other and I got lost. I finally found a way back to the house. They lived upstairs and the only way I could get their attention is I got a rock and threw it up and broke the window. Then mom came out and says “there you are, where have you been.” I says, “oh perfect, here I’m home.” I did get lost again next time when we were shopping. I got lost but I knew how to get home. She told me if you get lost go home and I’ll go home and you’ll know how to go home. I did but she was a little unhappy about the window but I says I just wanted to get your attention and you were on the second the floor. The place downstairs was called Bradshaws auto part and the stairs went down the side and CAN’T HEAR 9:39
Questions about the Teen Years
1. Where did you live? Tell me about your home.
I lived in provo until I was 18. Then I joined the navy and when I came back I went to school at BYU.
2. What was your favorite activity as a teenager? Tell me about it.
Well, I had two or three favorite things. First I did a lot of pheasant money. Second when I turned sixteen I started to fly airplanes. I learned because I wanted to be a pilot. I used to go deer hunting. I could get a license to go deer hunting. And that was about the three things I did until I turned 18. Oh and went boating on Utah lake. We had a boat so we did a lot of boating and duck hunting too.
3. What was school like as a teenager? Was there something you were especially good at in school? What school activities did you participate in?
I went to Provo High School. We went to seminar every morning and then we would go to High school. It was just like any school. We went to the classes and we had different deals you had to do and mathematics and English, I don’t remember all the classes but that’s what it was, it was just High School. And you had your curriculum, your 7th 8th and 9th grade. 10th 11th and 12th as you got to High School. Did all the classes until it was time to depart.
4. What books did you read? What were your favorite radio or television programs?
Mainly I read the comic books. We would get them and read them “Flash Gorden,” and “main the terrible.” And “Buck Rogers.” And all that stuff. And I guess that was about it. We didn’t have a television but Radio Programs we used to listen to “Amos and Andy.” And I guess that was about it. We didn’t have too much to do. Oh, we used to go to the movies and watch Gene Autry and all the Cowboy movies. Every Saturday you got in for ten cents. You can’t do that now.
5. What was teenage music like then? What was your favorite kind?
I didn’t pay too much attention to music. It was just music because it didn’t mean anything to me at all. I just listened to it and thought, “Oh that’s fine and good ” I says maybe I’ll need it maybe I won’t. But I listened to it and said. Well, that was pretty. So that’s about as far as that went.
6. Did you go to school dances? What were they like? How did teenagers dance then?
Oh yea we went to school dances. They were in the gym and you went in and the ladies would sit on one side and you sit on the other and you go up and ask some young lady to go dancing with you so I would go over and dance. That was about it. It was all chaperoned and everything. It was just a high school event like when you go to a football game you go and you participate.
7. What home responsibilities did you have?
Kind of like I have now. I had to take out the trash and empty it and bring it in, move the trash cans, help clean up the yard and cut the lawn and keep the car running. We had 1936 Ford and that is where I learned to drive. He would park it facing in and I would get in and drive it turn it around and face it out. When I got ready for my driver’s license at 16 I already knew how to drive pretty well, didn’t have much trouble passing the test. And that was about it mainly, just regular chores around the house.
8. Did anything difficult happen to you as a teenager?
Yea, we used to go down to Utah Lake a lot. We did a lot of swimming when we were down there. I used to run with four or five guys and we built a diving helmet. You would sit it down over your shoulders and you had the little deal in front (we made a little glass deal welded it and all put together) and it had a hose going up to it. The way we got the air to it is we had 3 hand pumps and we would pump on it that way and get the air in it. We could go down about 10 feet you know, walk around a little on the bottom. One day I was down there walking around and all of a sudden they quit pumping. I says, “UH oh.” So, we had an escape plan in case that every happened, we just push it off took a breath and come to the top. I says “What happened.” “The hose broke!” And I said “That’s a fine time to break I’m ten feet under wire.” “Well that is why you got the top you can push off and you come to the top.” And I said “well it works I’m here.”
One other thing we were pheasant hunting and a pheasant took off right in front of me and I was walking this way and there were four hunters that saw that saw that same pheasant go up and I says “I’m in trouble.” So I just turned my back and pulled my leather jacket up and all four of those guys shot and I got hit with about 25 pellets. Right up the back and down on the legs and side but it didn’t go through because I had a leather jacket and Levi’s on and I said, “Hey guys at least point it the other way.” But that happened out in pheasant hunting which could happen to anybody. But I knew what was coming so I was ready for it when it hit. I says OK. Then I got a pheasant right after that.
9. Who were your friends then? What did you like to do with them?
There were five of us. There was Russell Naxim, Bob Davis, Bob Anderson, Bob Conad, and me and Max Mitchell. All of them except Russell and me are dead. So there are only two of us left out of the whole group. They passed on to the other side.
10. What made you decide on your career or college or your plans for your future? What goals did you have at that time?
I used to build a lot of airplane models. I had low wing u controls and high wings and all gas models with the little gas engines and I decided then that I was going to be a pilot. That is when I decided to become a pilot and that is when I decided to fly when I was 16 and I flew until I was retired in ’83. I worked as a flight mechanic for Hughes Aircraft Company. One other thing, I learned to fly helicopters too. SO that was another added incentive that they wanted to keep me to fly after I retired. But my wife Kathleen said you “No, you aren’t going to do any more flying , you’ve done enough and we are going to go to Egypt.” So we went to Egypt and spent two weeks and this was in 1983.
12. When did you begin to have a testimony of Jesus Christ? What memories do you have of Church meetings or activities?
When do you get baptized the first time? When you are 8 years old? That is the first thing I remember, getting baptized.
I got to be a boy scout. I got to sit in class. I was working for my star. But I never made it and one of my friends who asked me said, “Are you going on a mission.” And I said, “Yea for the united states Navy.” And that is when I went when I joined 18. So I didn’t go on a mission I went on another mission.
Questions about Adult Life
1. How and when did you meet _____ (name of spouse)? What was your first impression of him or her? Tell me all about it. What happened then? How did you feel?
I thought she was a good looking gal. Well, when I met Kathy, Bob Davis, Bob Anderson, Russell and Conad were all back from the service. We had all come back you know, we had been discharged from the navy and the army and the air force and we were all in an religion class. It had the big seats in the back and the stage down below where the professor was. And he got to picking on Kathy about fire and any naturally I had a few things to say so I got up and said “Professor this is supposed to be a religions class and not a science class. It doesn’t’ make any difference what makes the D*** fire burn. It is the fact that this is a religious class and not a science class so stick to the point and get to your religion.” Bob Davis and all the rest of the guys said “Tell him dick!” and I said “Well I’ll give him six inches of steal.” And that is how I met my wife. Those professors thought they had it made that they could do it that you were afraid of them. They found out that every GI that came back wasn’t afraid of anything because he had already been through everything. I shouldn’t tell you this but you have a religion class you know? And you are required to have so many hours of religion. Well, guess who was sluffing religion class? I was. So the scholarship committee called me up and said “Richard you are sluffing to much religion. You got to least come to class anyhow.” And I said “Why?” And he said “Well you have got to have a testimony.” And I said, “I got a testimony. I’m not really interested what they did 3000 years ago. I’m interested in what they are doing today.” And he said “I’ll tell you what, I will make a deal with you. If you just come to class We’ll will give you a C.” And I said “boy you guys drive a hard bargain.” And he said “well, you can’t take it you can’t leave it” and I said “well I guess I will have to take it.” So I had to go to religion class to finish out and get my total numbers to graduate. And after we got through with that the professor wasn’t too happy with us guys up in the religion class and Kathy said “Thank-You.”
2. When were you married? Where were you married? What do you remember about your wedding day?
We were married in the Salt Lake Temple. It was dark and rainy. It was the 14 of August. That is where we got married.
3. What was it like to be a newlywed in those days?
Broke. I had this friend named al who wasn’t really a member of the gang we knew him and he was a fine instructor and Al Gone was down in California working for Hughes Aircraft. I was going to work on my Master’s degree and I looked around for a job but there just wasn’t any job after I graduated. So he said come down to California I got a job for you. So I went down to California and become a flight engineer and a pilot for the company and a helicopter pilot.
4. What memorable or humorous adventures did you have?
Got lost in Disneyland. That is the only thing that was exciting. We finally found each other. It was about a 3 hour chunk that I didn’t know where Kathy was and she didn’t know where I was. We go separated on Pirates of the Caribbean. I got left behind and she went on the boat and it stopped on the other side of the dock and I couldn’t get over to the other side of the dock. She got off and when I got over there she wasn’t there. I says well, I don’t’ know where she is and we kept going around and hunting and we finally found each other. But it was about a two hour block before we found each other.
5. What was it like to become a parent? How did you feel?
We did all the things that was right and we got a beautiful girl named Robin. I had to start making more money to support the whole family so Kathy went to work and I went to work and we loaned sort of Robin out to the babysitter until we got more money. After that we had another daughter named Cindy and by that time Kathy and pretty much had a good job with Serves and I was still with Hughes and we just grew up and they grew up and everybody did their thing.
7. As an adult or parent, what did you like to do for entertainment? What were some of your favorite traditions?
We liked to eat out. Go see the movie. We did a lot of skiing. We used to go to Ala and briden and ski all day and all night. In the night time we would go to Alpine village. They had a ski lift that they made and we used to do a lot of night skiing up there too. That was one of the things we used to do.
8. What talents did you discover in yourself as you grew up? Tell me about all the things you learned to do. (It may be necessary to prod your relative on this one. He or she knows plenty but often doesn’t think it will be interesting. You might need to read a list of talents and ask about the happiest or most challenging or unpleasant time with that talent.)
That I was pretty good with my hands and could work a lot of problems with them. I was very good at mechanical stuff. I could take it apart and put it together and make it work. That is when I decided that I was going to be a mechanic and a pilot and buy my own airplane. And that’s what I did. And I bought my own airplane and named it after my first daughter, Robin. It was a Stenson Voyager 108-1.
9. Have you had any personal or family tragedies in your life? If you would like, tell me about them.
No, none other than just my mother and dad dying but there is nothing you can do about that. It happens to everybody. That’s the only two tragedies we had. Plus two operations.
10. How did you feel when your father, mother, brother, sister, spouse, or child died? How did you get used to life without that person? What helped you the most?
When I was married at the time and I had Kathy and I adjusted to it. It was a normal thing and there is nothing you can do about it so life went on and we went on it.
When Kathy died, that was like the end of the world, because we had always done everything together. Funny thing, the morning it happened I told Robin, I says “Robin watch your mother she’s not acting right.” I had the key to the library at the church so I was taking the key to the library. When I come back Robin was already gone to the hospital. And I knew something was really wrong when she went to the hospital. When I got there they wanted to know what she was eating because they didn’t know what it was. Then she went into a coma and Mark, my son-in-law, went and stayed with her. And that very night while all of us were visiting she passed on. Funny thing, when she died it was kind of like a wind went around everybody and it was just a big sigh of relief. That’s how we missed Kathy and we have been without her ever since but we still remember her memory.
11. What was the greatest accomplishment or joy you have had in life? What others do you remember?
Learning to fly that helicopter! That is one mean airplane to fly, well it’s not an airplane, it’s a helicopter. I learned to fly a regular airplane in 8 hours and it took me 18 hours to learn how to fly that helicopter. A helicopter is much more sophisticated. It can do more things and it really is the workforce of the group now, as you notice helicopters do everything.
13. Tell me about your testimony of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Are there any spiritual experiences you would like to tell me about?
I believe that Jesus Christ did live. And that he is the only and only to fallow, U always try to keep the commandments. I went through the latter right to the top. I think I'm a high priest now. I think it is just automatic to go to church every Sunday and pay your tithing. If you are Mormon. But a lot of people aren't Mormon so they don't understand us.
Time 44:27